This would be simply to assist the L train with ridership, and add to the capacity in North Brooklyn getting across the river, and to link Union Square and points North to the Eastern Districts. A few thoughts: 1) The 125 St portion to Bway makes sense to connect passengers from the ever crowded # 1 train. This new subway, along Jamaica Av to Crescent St where it would rise to meet the existing elevated track, would eliminate the slow curves at Crescent St and allow for faster service downtown for Jamaica riders. A and C will be the expresses that will run from Bwy Jct to the Atlantic LIRR corridor. While it is redundant, it should still be kept for Nassau Riders willing to access Lower Manhattan living on Jamaica. The Broadway, Lexington and Crentre st lines all run at the same depth so connecting them is far more complicated that you’d think. While I’m sure many people would like to see infill express stations I think the connection to Fulton St express would suffice. The Concourse and 8 Av lines simply don’t have enough capacity. The closest stations to Second Avenue Subway Phase 2 Partnership (SASP2P) are: These Bus lines stop near Second Avenue Subway Phase 2 Partnership (SASP2P): BXM18, M15-SBS, QM11. Something has to be done there. Needed as they are they were beyond the scope of this post. The E would then have to replace the R via Whitehall St and this would mean that all R stations in Brooklyn would need their platforms extended. So building a branch of the Fulton Exp will give Jamaica riders a faster one seat ride. Phase 2 also will reuse the original tunnels built in the 1970s from 96th St north to 120th St. If the MTA handled Phase 2 of the Second Avenue Subway appropriately (modified Jake Berman map) Close. The reason I don’t have a station at Broadway-125 St is that the tail tracks need to be long enough to handle close to 30tph. Therefore it needs to go all the way downtown. That is, unless you have some trains short-turning. Because of the existing H&M tubes the express tracks were only built from 53rd St south to 34th St and at W 4th St Station. Here’s how we can change that. All local stations south of Canal St would be abandoned, which really isn’t the worst thing. That along gives riders a faster one seat ride to lower Manhattan than even the express J does today. Couldn’t you have just connected that part to the LIRR atlantic Av Branch? The geography makes transfers between the two long and expensive to run. Since then the MTA has been focused more on maintaining the crumbling system rather than expanding it. Why did you end the Q, & T trains at Saint Nicklas Avenue when you could continue it to Broadway 🎭 With a Conection to the 1. H trains now run down 6th Ave and V trains down 2nd Ave. V trains would take over from the B as Brighton Beach express but would face a bottleneck on Queens Blvd. Where can I go to get involved in it? The other line you mention is the LIRR Lower Montauk Branch and is a crucial link in the LIRR as it’s the only alternative route to LIC from Jamaica should there be delays on the Main Line. Theoretically yes. MTA New York City Subway: Second Avenue Subway Line Station Tour - Duration: 38:55. I will never stop fighting for the RBB. I’ll probably add that to an updated map. Van Wyck was dropped from the name. Love the new map! Wall St [4,5] is 640 yards away, 8 min walk. Moovit provides free maps and live directions to help you navigate through your city. Having the C go to Jamaica isn’t the best idea because it eliminates 8 Av local service and riders have to solely rely on the J/W in your proposal. What this means in reality is that we plan on building the most expensive subway in the world that will help far fewer New Yorkers than it possibly could all because a state agency prioritizes a narrow definition of service over the needs of the total system. The EIS looked at just one use of the Centre St Subway which I agree isn’t great because of the extreme curves. I hope to show that with strategic connections the 2nd Ave Subway can have a wider ranging impact on the system as a whole. The bare bones plan wastes the potential that a new trunk line provides. If the 7 could be expanded then ok but the Steinway tunnels are too narrow. And yes, the B is express between 34 St and W 4 St, but it only skips two stops. As ridership in north Brooklyn continues to rise and alternatives to the L train are few, rerouting the BMT Jamaica Line up 6th Av would be a boon for the area. Would it be up to 14 like planned in the FEIS? The point here is the build the little connections first rather than a whole project. Without them it hardly makes sense to extend the line further north since it would require riders transfer from express trains to local trains when they could just stay on the express via Lexington Av. Proposed since 1968, the station is expected to be built by 2027–2029 as part of Phase 2 of the Second Avenue Subway. But after the euphoria died down and commuters began to adjust to the new line the inevitable question of “what’s next” came up. However I don’t agree with the elimination of the (M) and (Z) lines. There would be a transfer at Grand St so riders coming from Brooklyn could reach 2nd Av and a branch to Queens via the new 63rd St Tunnel planned as a super express line out to Forest Hills. It would have to be built with three tracks and would have to end just to the east side of Broadway where there is an escalator up to the existing station. Note: This post is not a fully realized futureNYCSubway proposal but rather a plea for planners to reconsider what is being planned for 2nd Ave. Click on the Subway route to see step by step directions with maps, line arrival times and updated time schedules. With the current tunnel lengths and the angle at which the Centre St tunnels turn, I assume this would not be entirely possible, however, you brought up a situation involving the same tracks. I would have the provisions for a line to the Bronx, which I think should be done before a 125th Street Crosstown go to 129th Street. Wall St/Pier 11 is 343 yards away, 5 min walk. Interestingly the low V frequency on QB makes space available in the 63rd St Tunnel for rerouted R trains. It’s better to send the 6th Ave express tracks iver there since there is already redundancy in the IND. Transit should be built where it’s most effective not where it’s cheapest to build. W trains would probably remain the same since you’d also have the addition of J trains and C trains would pick up the express slack. If you are doing improvements along the Jamaica Line, you should take the time to add the third track. … Phase 2 of the Second Avenue Subway will extend the Q train from its Phase 1 terminus of 96th St. to 125th St. in Harlem. Even riders in South Brooklyn want 6 Av service, so this is why the M should not be eliminated because even if the B or D get diverted, the M could be used to replace B/D service in South Brooklyn. So if it becomes necessary to save money and time, they just build phases 2-3 and connect the Second Avenue Subway … This project would better serve the needs of north Brooklyn riders looking to reach Midtown as well as Jamaica riders who now no longer have to transfer at Broadway Junction for a faster ride downtown. If there are any new trunk lines from Queens to Midtown they would best be simple crosstown lines and not interfere with the existing trunk lines. Even with the reuse of the existing tunnels the current price tag is around $6 billion which has given many pause since Phase 1, which did included new tunnels, clocked in at $4.5 billion. Why don’t you have free transfers from the SAS at 42nd and 55th? Phase 1 extends the train to provide an upgraded and modernized Lexington Avenue-63rd Street station and new stations at 96th Street (shown above), 86th Street and 72nd Street. The underlying fault of the current iteration of the 2nd Ave Subway is that it’s being designed as a single entity when every other line in the system, and the original concept for the 2nd Ave Subway, were all designed as parts of a larger network. But from your proposal, it seems it is just a waste of money because it won’t alleviate crowds and will cause a lot of congestion in Queens, Manhattan, and Brooklyn. I suppose the E NY Yard would have to be expanded to handle the IND trains. You can have some trains go via Second Avenue if a connection between the Broadway local tracks and the 63rd Street Line is built using the trackways that were intended for a line to the Upper West Side. It does almost nothing for riders from Queens and Brooklyn, to say nothing of the Bronx. The TRX to me seems like this silver bullet that the RPA things will solve all our problems. When the MTA was created in 1968 it was a state agency so their onus for city planning was reduced. Jamaica would also have dual 6th, 8th Av, and Nassau service. After Queens Plaza, the R will resume normal service until Woodhaven Blvd. There is more demand to midtown than lower Manhattan. Well if you swapped the V and H, so that V is on 2nd Ave and H is 6th Ave, you’d have to redesign the 125St terminal for higher headways. It’s unclear when work will be completed on Phase 2, if ever. The first plan for 2nd Ave-QB I had had H trains running close to 15tph and V trains at 10tph. This allows for dual service to 2 Av/8Av(6/8Av in the new version) on the whole Rockaway Branch. Leaving the Fulton St express tracks fallow just seems like a waste. In 1999 the Environmental Impact Statement for the current concept of 2nd Av was produced and updated in 2004. 8th Ave is only going to get more crowded as Hudson Yards and Hells Kitchen build out. People who live in between the Eastern Parkway and Fulton Street Lines who want to get to the East Side would use the crowded 4 and 5. Mobs of riders transfer at Broadway Junction. Aside from some inspections by MTA workers, the tunnels have been sealed for decades. The costs for Phase 3/4 will be huge due to the complexity of the project but it is far worse to design something ineffective because it will be cheaper than to make a greater investment that will return more dividends to the city in the long run. This is not one of the new trains joining the Queens Blvd Line. The unveiling occurred right before the facility’s 20,000th visitor crossed the threshold on Thursday. -Finally, add 2 S.A.S. Second Avenue Subway Phase 2 Partnership (SASP2P), Manhattan. This might be needed anyway if the new flying junction is built below it. Express tracks could then be built later (in the same way that it took 27 years to build express tracks on 6th Av) and new services added for demand we cannot today predict. My adage is that you should build transit where it will be most effective not where it will be cheapest. It would also incorporate the plan with the abandoned LIRR line, and the Flushing connection. It would also leave the 4/5 the only north-south line on the east side which would clog them up even more. I would have Phase 4 of the Second Avenue Subway built with a new tunnel under the East River, connecting to the Fulton Street Line without using the Court Street station. Second Avenue Subway – Phase 1 - Duration: 3:07. That is the ideal. Originally there was the option to connect 2nd Av to the Centre St Subway at Bowery Station but the proximity of the station to where the 2nd Av tunnels would be built would mean that the station couldn’t be used (and most likely would have to be demolished) and that the existing curves in the tunnel would be so tight that it would force 2nd Av trains to slow down considerably. It’ll be like the Hudson-Bergen Light Rail, super nice if you live along it and that’s it. Another issue I have concerns the BMT Jamaica Line. The 6th Av Line was designed to be integrated into the IND system with connections to the existing 8th Av, Queens Blvd, Crosstown, and Fulton St Lines. The reason for the layup tracks is so that any future service coming in from Brooklyn can terminate in midtown if there is no extra capacity north or to Queens. That could be adjusted given ridership demands but with CBTC it would be very doable. This would alleviate crowds not only on Lexington Av, but also on Fulton and Jamaica as well. A rush hour super-express from Jamaica would actually reduce crowding on QB. The current plan for 2nd Av was finalized in 2004 (with adjustments as construction costs rose) with Phase 1 opening 12 years later. I didn’t show it because the yards would also need to be expanded to handle the longer cars and I’m not familiar with yard design to know what exactly would be needed. But the point I’m trying to illustrate is that the current plan only helps residents along the east side of Manhattan get uptown or downtown a little better. Jaded New Yorkers, exhausted by nearly a decade of construction work, made their way down through the new stations to marvel at the accomplishment. Also, there are people from these communities that would be fighting for the line that would be upset if they have to drive to get to a station. Also like the idea of the (B) running from Metropolitan Avenue (replacing the (M) that would be decommissioned) and becoming a 19/7 line running to 145 (Rush Hours to Bedford Park Boulevard). Also making a lot of sense (via new connections that would be straight) would have the Montague Street line connect to the currently unused local tracks of the Fulton Street Line. It will then follow the E(the E will switch to the local track)up to Jamaica Center. Since the W would be extended, it would not be terminating at Whitehall. You don’t need to download an individual bus app or train app, Moovit is your all-in-one transit app that helps you find the best bus time or train time available. Phase 1 of 2nd Av was designed so that it could directly connect to the existing system, rather than an entire separate line, and show the city that it could actually be built. With no express tracks this leaves the northern end of 2nd Av acting as a branch line rather than a trunk line. Removing this redundancy from the BMT Broadway-4th Ave Line would royally fuck things when there is a delay. The current express tracks (used by the B/D trains to reach the Manhattan Bridge) would be severed from 6th Av and connected directly to 2nd Av. This would be a separate project in and of itself in that it would require expanding the Broadway El stations for longer cars as well as rebuilding the Myrtle-Broadway interlocking to allow for more service; all of this would be a far cheaper alternative for expanding service to Bushwick and Bedford-Stuyvesant than building a new subway. Is it possible to extend the G to Forest Hills-71 Av? But that adds cost and would leave Williamsburg Bridge useless. (Andrew Savulich/New York Daily News) While the Second Av H does cover it and serves Midtown, it is more deserving of a Super-Express Bypass to the Rockaways to provide direct service to the East Side than a QBL. Will there be a FutureNYCsubway Version 6 (just asking). The same cannot be said for Phases 3 and 4. I know the curves on Park Row are very sharp, but it won’t FULLY alleviate crowds on the 4/5/6. Water St/Gouverneur Ln is 92 yards away, 2 min walk. In the 1960s as part of the Chrystie St Connection the express tracks were built between 34th St and W 4th St so that express trains could connect to the Manhattan Bridge. Today, riders wanting to access Lower Manhattan from Fulton can get off at Chambers or Fulton. You made a mistake on the map. Planners today are scared that they can’t get anything built that they don’t even bother to design their projects to full potential. it would involve adding a 4th track on the concourse line and the V running from norwood-205 St, then at Bedford park run express to 59 St-Columbus Circle. While southern Queens is growing it still isn’t at the point where it would need an additional trunk line. The third track would be for Jamaica riders and would make an extension further east more feasible. Subway and restored W train. By having a Second Avenue route go via Fulton and Lower Manhattan, crowding on the 4 and 5, and perhaps the 2 and 3 for that matter, would decrease. C will continue non-stop to Jamaica. Check out this list of stops closest to your destination: Water St & Hanover Sq; Water St/Hanover Sq; Water St/Gouverneur Ln; Water St/Wall St; Water St / Coenties Slip East; Wall St/Pier 11; Wall St [2,3]; Broad St [J,Z]; Whitehall St [N,R,W]; Wall St [4,5]. And then you’d lose the redundancy on Broadway-4th Ave where it’s most needed. I see what you really saying but I disagree. But going forward it is becoming increasingly clear that the division between city and state needs is now starting to have long term consequences when it comes to 2nd Av and the future of transit in NYC. Sorry, your blog cannot share posts by email. C trains would replace J/Z trains, through with the extra capacity some J trains could also run from Jamaica to Chamber St via Fulton St using the Nassau St connection within the Montague Tunnel. Looking for the nearest stop or station to Second Avenue Subway Phase 2 Partnership (SASP2P)? The E needs that service, and it would be a bad idea to cut it. First, MTA Capital Construction unveiled its latest exhibit entitled Second Avenue Subway: Phase 2 and Beyond. There would be a Union Avenue station, and Marcy Avenue would be rebuilt with two island platforms. If the T ran via Fulton Street and Second Avenue, they would switch over, and in addition, having the SAS not go to Lower Manhattan would not allow for the full usage of the line. You even extended the W to Euclid due to lack of demand, so it would make sense from my proposal. Phase 1 of the Second Avenue Subway opened in 2017 — just three stations of a planned 16 total. Second Avenue Subway Phase 2 Partnership (SASP2P) in Manhattan, Hilton New York JFK Airport to Bensonhurst Park, Rutgers University - Newark to Montclair, Nj, Hilton New York JFK Airport to Tarrytown, Ny, Bank of America Winter Village at Bryant Park, Super Express Glen Oaks 260 St Via H Hrdng Exy, Canarsie Williams Av Via Avenue H Via Avenue M. Water St & Hanover Sq is 91 yards away, 2 min walk. Water St / Coenties Slip East is 232 yards away, 3 min walk. Now I will comment on the plan. Why wouldn’t the 2nd Ave Subway run the entire route of 2nd Ave? Plus, the L could be extended to 72 St-Amsterdam Av to alleviate crowds on the 7. We just need better leadership that wants to do it. As someone pointed out this would constrict 6th Ave local. Therefore, the center track should be black, not yellow. L train riders coming from Canarsie have a better option in using 6th Av trains with the elimination of the very long transfer at Broadway Junction and can avoid the crowds at Bedford Av. Also, the station is just Briarwood. Speaking of the 1970s, Phase 2 costs projections make no sense. The Second Avenue Subway's first phase was completed on New Year's Day of 2017. The new exhibit gives an in-depth look into the next phase of the Second Avenue Subway. That should be used as part of a regional rail system, not as part of the subway system. Following the recent opening of Phase 1 of the Second Avenue Subway (SAS) in Manhattan, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA) is now advancing SAS Phase 2, the portion of the new subway that extends service between 96th Street and 125th Street. Transportation Hub 25,644 views. Plus, the BMT cars used on the L cannot be used on the 7 due to them being too wide. Eliminating the M and Z should not happen. On the northern end, I would not have a 125th Street Crosstown. The section between Chambers and Bowery just won’t work for a simple connection. I just don’t understand why this is necessary. I’ve never been a big fan of the TRX, not because I don’t think it would be useful, but because I don’t think it would be as cheap and easy as they claim and that I think if the same money was invested into the existing network there would be a higher return. But due to the location of Phase 4 the new line won’t allow for transfers to any downtown stations with access to Brooklyn. Given current ridership levels the existing Montague Tunnel (used by the R in the day and N at night) runs well under capacity. I was thinking with a third track there could be super express C service which would be far faster via Fulton than Broadway Brooklyn. I’m trying to add more service using as much existing infrastructure as possible. Construction took 5 years and cost $59,500,000 in 1940, $1,034,783,763 in today’s dollars (based on conversion from https://westegg.com/inflation/). -The next train will be a rerouted R train. Get directions from and directions to Second Avenue Subway Phase 2 Partnership (SASP2P) easily from the Moovit App or Website. Click to email this to a friend (Opens in new window), Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window), Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Reddit (Opens in new window), Unbuilt Highways of New York City and Robert Moses, http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2008/11/05/second-avenue-subway-rethink-1/. In theory a rider coming from Brooklyn could enter the subway and take one of three trains which would have run up Broadway, 6th Av, or 2nd Av. Another option I prefer, if possible, would be to switch some express trains to the local tracks between Roosevelt Ave and Forest Hills to cut down on riders switching at Roosevelt Ave. That track switch would use the extra capacity on both tracks so extending the G would be more difficult. Infill stations can always be added later. Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps. While it would require extending many of the existing stations on the Broadway-Brooklyn line to be expanded to handle 600′ trains (something that needs to be done anyway for other reasons), having the (B) and (D) moved to that line via new connections at Christie Street with the (T) replacing that along the north Manhattan Bridge Tunnel with it going straight into Grand Street makes a lot of sense. Do you see the X as every coming to light? it is bad enough that the third track was taken out of the plan for 72nd and likely 125th. What I’m suggesting is to just use Nassau St for a straighter, faster run. Basically what I mean is by building strategic routes through Queens and Brooklyn you wouldn’t have to go all the way into the city to go out and existing choke points could be alleviated at the same time. 2nd Ave Subway Map Phase 1 MTA silent but Mica, feds hint at SAS Phase 2 Second Ave. Sagas The futureNYCSubway: 2nd Avenue Subway History – vanshnookenraggen Second Avenue Subway Archives Page 13 of 27 Second Ave. Sagas MTA | Capital Programs Second Avenue Subway Second Avenue Subway Archives Second Ave. Sagas :: Second Ave. Sagas The second phase will extend the Q train from 96th Street to East Harlem, with new stations to be built along Second Avenue at 106th and 116th streets, and at 125th Street between Lexington and Park avenues, where riders will be able to connect to the Metro-North as well as the 4/5/6 subway … The line runs through underserved communities, and these people want transit service. What is needed is to design Phase 3 to be as lean as possible but also allow for future expansion for the addition of express tracks and provisions for a new tunnel to Queens should the need arise. In its current form transfers from Brooklyn will require two sets of stairs and there will be no line to Queens, the borough in greatest need of congestion relief. Planning for Phase 2, from 96th St/2nd Av to 125th St/Lexington Av has begun but construction isn’t planned to start until after 2019 because funding was cut by Governor Andrew Cuomo from the 2015-2019 budget. Second Avenue Subway Full Project Profile. “Phase 2 of the Second Avenue Subway is a transportation option that has been long overdue for the residents and businesses of East Harlem,” said Rep. Adriano Espaillat (NY-13). Remember, this is my opinion, so feel free to reply if you should fix some of my points. I’m interested into why you have the E going back to being local east of 71st. Thank you for your careful consideration of what is actually need in midtown instead of the extension into phase 4. Fourth, why is there no Lower Manhattan 2nd Av service? Then You have to look at the changing demographics in Bed Stuy and Bushwick which is demanding more midtown service since the M was rerouted. First of all, I love how you used your track map to make this plan. Phase 1 and 2 lack express tracks due to the limitations of the tunnels built in the 1970s. There will be new stations at 106th Street and 116th Street on Second Avenue and 125 Street at Park Avenue. North of the station, between 57th and 61st streets will be a six track cavern: the outer most tracks will continue north and connect to the existing 2nd Av Subway with bellmouth provisions for future express tracks to the Bronx, the middle tracks will drop down to connect with the 63rd St Tunnel and the innermost tracks will be used for layups and storage and can also be connected to the existing 2nd Av tunnels to the north. The Houston St Station will be built with two island platforms but only two inner tracks; the outer trackways will be sealed off and the layup tracks planned at 14th street will be moved south between 3rd street and 14th streets. Phase 1 and 2 lack express tracks due to the limitations of the tunnels built in the 1970s. 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